Alternate Poker Forum Standards Of Game Play

PoolDemon

Over the course of the last few months a growing awareness that the high level of play we are used to in APF games has been lowered by constant all ins, (pre & post flop) where the blinds & chip stacks do not justify those bets, or the choice of starting hands that are getting involved in overly large pots.

The players here at APF are used to a high standard of game play far above what we see in other forums and non forum games. Part of Alternate Poker's concept is to promote players to a better standard of play, regardless of the buy-in amount we set our games at.

We want to get the level of play back to what it, until recently, was; we need players to re-evaluate their game, their betting, and choices of hands that are played. In doing so, we hope all players become better equipped to tackle the variances of games outside of APF.

As we know all too well, any 2 cards can win, but realistically, many hands that have been involved in large pots lately have been hands that were very far behind, needing to hit a 1 or 2 outer to win is not what any would call a great hand.

We will be posting a weekly hand(s) discussion taken from our games, not to belittle the players involved, but in an effort to educate, inform, & improve our games & our players, and what could be better than that.

If you're still unsure about what we mean by the standards we are talking about, read more about this issue in Harry's original post : A Word About Standards During APF Games

Thank you for taking the time to read this, and please feel free to reply with any thoughts and suggestions.
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never do card tricks for the group you play poker with...

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addam00 · Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:25 am Post subject:

well I know i get frstretd by some of the play bt ithink maybe some people think they are getting pshed ot ot of hand or a bluff becase i know alot of times i am head in hands and seems like alot for regular call me . bt sometimes i want to say something bt i dont.. i think more on more people are laythis way I know people are getting more agreesivce and trying to push everybody ot of pots
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Gandalf · Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:54 am Post subject:

I really liked the play at my table today (XMAS Game #3) - was no pushing around like the last game.

Maybe it's your thread that helped

btw I bubbled = I suck <-- so don't give much on what I'm saying

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addam00 · Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:53 am Post subject:

poker is just like the ecoonmy yo have to take it when it bad and enjoy it when its good
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PoolDemon · Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:30 pm Post subject:

RenoPoker · Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:55 pm Post subject:

All ins are a part of No Limit poker, I agree with Daniel N that it is donk play and takes a lot of skill out of playing post flop poker when someone over bets the pot. But I have also read articles where players intentionly overuse the allin early in the tourney to make people think they are nuts.
Thereby setting players up to make calls with less value then the bet because they think you are off the wall. I've made a lot of bad calls myself assuming the guy is over betting his hand again.

I don't play this way myself but I have always been taught that if you buy the chips you can play them anyway that is within the rules.

Myself I love limit poker tourneys for the lack of all in donk play

I would recommend we switch to limit or pot limit tourneys if we want to take the allin bet out of the game.

I got 2nd in a real tourney in pot limit poker in Reno a few years ago. I really think pot limit takes the greatest skill to play of all.

PoolDemon · Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:01 pm Post subject:

Of course all in play is a part of NLTH, but the overuse of it is part of what we are seeing lately, & there is no need for it. When the BB is only 10, & someone pushes to garner 15 chips, what was accomplished, pretty much nothing. Raise it up to 100 if needed, & outplay any callers off the flop, not by pushing yet again, but a decent bet will work...

I don't agree the problem is solved with the limit/pot limit games as one of the problems there are the reverse, you can't place a proper bet to get a chaser out of the pot, there are times a proper all in is required, & should be used...
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never do card tricks for the group you play poker with...

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PoolDemon · Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:49 pm Post subject:

I re-read what I posted in my last reply, & it didn't come out the way I wanted it to, looking for a good discussion on this, so lets share some thoughts on this...

Some games do indeed involve looser styles of play, such as a bounty game, but our regular games should involve much less all ins preflop, especially early on. Part of poker is playing after the flop, the more experianced you get, the better you play this very important part of the game...

By going all in preflop or post flop early on, you garner far fewer chips than you would if you outplayed the villians in the pot with you, sure you might get them to fold with the all in play, but the bigger picture it to accumulate chips and you will average out earning more chips with better post flop play than constant all ins...
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never do card tricks for the group you play poker with...

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harry_lime · Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:24 pm Post subject:

yes, i would agree with this Pool.

i have the feeling that many players that use the all-in move are often afraid of being outplayed post flop, especially those less experienced. short handed i find this a more legitimate type of play but it's a fact that early on, it's hard to accumulate chips unless you get a big caller which often puts you in a straight race and creates a more gambling rather than skill feel.

who has some other, perhaps differing thoughts on this ?
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addam00 · Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:49 am Post subject:

I really dont see it that bad i just think every once in awile we ge people like that..... well..... I seen some of the mods and admins play like that sometimes when i play in a game. and yet you may be able to justify it and who knows maybe other can justify there play too.. I am just saying it is not bad as it was when i first join its jst that there are more agreesive people out there then there were before
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Know-nuffin · Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 8:17 am Post subject:

All-in has it's place in no-limit and pot limit betting formats when used pre and post flop. I think it is best reserved to take a pot which already has some value and/or prevent more cards coming to the board. Unless short stacked, I can't see much point in shoving first.

Of course it can be fun in a freeroll to push or call an all-in with trash.

I cracked KK with 7-3 off during the week and nearly wet myself laughing.

Welllllllll I had a big stack and the other player didn't.

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Know-nuffin.... "nurse, he's out of bed again"

harry_lime · Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 8:45 am Post subject:

luvweed · Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:53 pm Post subject:

this is a very interesting thread.
My self i play at all ends of the pool. Mixing and adapting my style of play.

I also know players will find a play that seems to bother the players at there table.....and will keep doimg it to keep the bug n going on...hope n for TILT.

MrBadBeat · Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:47 pm Post subject:

This is a tough one.

I can see where Pool is coming from. Going all-in pre-flop to win a small pot is almost always a daft move.

I suppose you could make a case for doing it to toughen up you table image so you can intimidate the other players when a bigger pot comes along.

Reno's point about everyone having the right to use their chips the way they see fit is also valid. I suppose we all have to be able to cope with any type of play we come across, whether it's from skilful poker players or all-in and hope donks.

In the context of the forum, where we are all looking to improve our skills pre and post flop I think the all-in tactic has to be used sparingly otherwise it can spoil the game for the other players.

It also kind of devalues the skills we're all trying to build.

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