A Little Razz

DangerMouse · A Little Razz

A hand from a HORSE tourney. The round is Razz. I`m not going to say anything about the hand for now. Just take a look and throw out some comments as you see fit.

PokerStars Game #20608104855: Tournament #109327956, $3.00+$0.30 HORSE (Razz Limit) - Level VIII (270/540) - 2008/09/22 14:02:35 ET
Table '109327956 2' 8-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: Hellwixx (3618 in chips)
Seat 2: Olympiakos79 (6150 in chips)
Seat 3: Loch No (750 in chips)
Seat 4: GoatBoy420 (5324 in chips)
Seat 5: pupsi68 (1720 in chips)
Seat 6: mg51 (9958 in chips)
Seat 7: smoke2012 (2968 in chips)
Seat 8: 0bee0ne (1556 in chips) is sitting out
Loch No: posts the ante 54
GoatBoy420: posts the ante 54
pupsi68: posts the ante 54
mg51: posts the ante 54
smoke2012: posts the ante 54
0bee0ne: posts the ante 54
Hellwixx: posts the ante 54
Olympiakos79: posts the ante 54
*** 3rd STREET ***
Dealt to Hellwixx [5d]
Dealt to Olympiakos79 [Ad]
Dealt to Loch No [8d]
Dealt to GoatBoy420 [Ts 5s Td]
Dealt to pupsi68 [9d]
Dealt to mg51 [2d]
Dealt to smoke2012 [9c]
Dealt to 0bee0ne [Ah]
GoatBoy420: brings in for 81
pupsi68: folds
mg51: folds
smoke2012: folds
0bee0ne: folds
Hellwixx: folds
Olympiakos79: calls 81
Loch No: folds
*** 4th STREET ***
Dealt to Olympiakos79 [Ad] [Qc]
Dealt to GoatBoy420 [Ts 5s Td] [

]
GoatBoy420: checks
Olympiakos79: checks
*** 5th STREET ***
Dealt to Olympiakos79 [Ad Qc] [2c]
Dealt to GoatBoy420 [Ts 5s Td

] [3h]
GoatBoy420: checks
Olympiakos79: checks
*** 6th STREET ***
Dealt to Olympiakos79 [Ad Qc 2c] [Jd]
Dealt to GoatBoy420 [Ts 5s Td

3h] [7d]
GoatBoy420: checks
Olympiakos79: bets 540
GoatBoy420: calls 540
*** RIVER ***
Dealt to GoatBoy420 [Ts 5s Td

3h 7d] [9h]
GoatBoy420: checks
Olympiakos79: checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
GoatBoy420: shows [Ts 5s Td

3h 7d 9h] (Lo: 9,7,5,4,3)
Olympiakos79: mucks hand
GoatBoy420 collected 1674 from pot

*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1674 | Rake 0
Seat 1: Hellwixx folded on the 3rd Street (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Olympiakos79 (button) mucked [Qs 3d Ad Qc 2c Jd 2s]
Seat 3: Loch No folded on the 3rd Street (didn't bet)
Seat 4: GoatBoy420 showed [Ts 5s Td

3h 7d 9h] and won (1674) with Lo: 9,7,5,4,3
Seat 5: pupsi68 folded on the 3rd Street (didn't bet)
Seat 6: mg51 folded on the 3rd Street (didn't bet)
Seat 7: smoke2012 folded on the 3rd Street (didn't bet)
Seat 8: 0bee0ne folded on the 3rd Street (didn't bet)

Miklosik

First, you gotta love all the free ones he gives you. If I'm playing your hand, and he bets after my first check, especially after having brought in, then I'm gone without a second thought. But he just keeps checking, over and over. He let's you catch. Too bad, so sad for him.

DangerMouse

No other responses? There`s more to it than Mik has said. I`ll leave it till the weekend before I add my own comments.

PoolDemon

ok, i'm working on my first

so forgive me if I read this wrong...

he limped instead of raising PF showing an ace, both checked to 6th st, he bets you call, check check on river, right...

so, realistically, his high cards are totally NFG for razz, he bluffed, you called, he lost, as one would expect with the cards that are shown, did I miss something ???

DangerMouse

PoolDemon

DangerMouse

Yes you missed something.

PoolDemon

I still don't get what I missed, by your cards that you show he must see he's clearly beat, I don't remember the last time I saw a queen high hand win, so as I mentioned above and also, he didn't just let you catch up, he was never there, did he think he was playing the stud round & thought 2 pair was good...you said it was razz right...i did have 3 coffee's already, I should be awake I think...

DangerMouse

Took me a little longer than expected to get round to this post.

I picked this hand because Olympiakos isn`t the only one who makes mistakes, I do too. The entire hand is played horribly really. Although some of the errors are more forgiveable than others.

I wanted to see if anyone would criticise my play. It looks like either no-one has noticed or no one wanted to criticise. I hope it`s the former because it`s hard to get into a discussion on strategy if we`re not willing to be critical about each others play.

As long as replies aren`t insulting we should all be willing to take a step back and look at another persons view. We might remain believing steadfastly in the way we played the hand and that`s fine. All we ask is that you take the critiscism in the way it`s meant ie to try and help you and everyone else`s game, Not to say you`re a bad player etc.

Ok sermon over . . . onto the hand

3rd str. Olypiakos clearly should have bet his ace here. By not doing so he reveals his hand isn`t that strong, The only possible reason for not betting is he`s worried about Loch No whose doorcard is an 8 and is pretty short stacked. If he bets he takes the hand.

4th str. Again if he bets I`m likely to fold. Even though 4th str is a bad card for him he could have forced me out. I can understand him not betting though.

5th str He catches another good card and imo should have bet out here. He could easily have 4 cards 9 or lower in which case I`m going to need to hit 2 perfect cards to beat him. (4th and 5th street are much closer percentage wise than I thought during the hand.)

6th str He catches a brick whilst I hit another great card. His bet here is horrible but in reality so is my play. In the simultions I ran I was likely an 80%+ favourite to win at this point. I should have lead out and I certainly should have check-raised when given the opportunity.

7th str I wasn`t that keen on the 9 but again looking at the sims I was 80%+ at this point and should have stuck a bet in.

So he played horribly and not only lost a pot he could have had uncontested but actually lost further chips betting at the completely wrong time.

I screwed up too. I missed at least one bet, maybe two. I realised a lot of this after I looked at the hand and ran the sims. Working out razz odds on the fly is virtually impossible though so I don`t feel too bad about it. But hopefully having taken the time to analyse the hand I`ll be able to spot similar hands in the future and capitalise on them.

For the simulations I assumed my opponent has an 8 and a random card in the hole. If he has a pair in the hole he`s actually drawing dead by 6th str. Olympiakos chances of winning are always represented by the first number

3rd str - 71.79% vs 28.30%
4th str - 52.91% vs 47.09%
5th str - 52.49% vs 47.51%
6th str- 14.86% vs 85.14%
7th str - 15.79% vs 84.21%