JR
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Another hand from MLP Buyin #9 (What a way to bubble)This was my last hand in todays buyin:
I'm usually not one to think about a hand after I'm out but this one really ticked me off.
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DangerMouse
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A bit of an ouch for sure. Then again you slowplayed your big hand and it backfired. The pre-flop bet was never going to get rid of Mad after she`d put the extra 100 in. After the flop she catches a pair and knowing that you only catch a pair 1 time in 3 it`s possible she`s ahead. You raised pre-flop and as far as I remember you usually c-bet JR. So she calls and catches 2 pair on the turn. Unlucky for you, yes, but it could have been avoided.
I`m pretty sure if the turn had been a blank and you`d pushed Mad would have folded the small pair.
Nothing wrong with your play here JR you just get unlucky. But by choosing to play the hand that way you gave Mad a shot to draw out on you. Nothing wrong with trying to extract value from a big hand but at the same time you have to know it can backfire.
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Miklosik
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eek, I remember the hand. On the bubble, losing to 72. Doesn't get any worse.
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Know-nuffin
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I wouldn't have paid the 1/2 blind calling with 72 suited or not.
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BlackTyson
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| Know-nuffin wrote: |
I wouldn't have paid the 1/2 blind calling with 72 suited or not. |
Seems like you are not "mad" enough for that call 
Seriously I would have raised a little more preflop - just because it was bubble time I don't want to get beaten by a "small" hand.
No offense meant to both - as both played the hand good, after its all over its easy to make the right decision  .
GG JR 
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Mad4Cards
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Well.... the table folded around to me. In my defence I would normally just throw this hand away but I had a little bit of the devil in me last night a min raise was an easy call . The flop seemed innocent enough and I hit my top pair. Your 1/2 pot bet on the flop seemed a pretty standard move for someone with 2 over cards and was an easy call given stack sizes. I assumed incorrectly at this point that I was ahead.... but let's face it you wanted me to think that given the 2 bets you had made so far. Then the turn card.... hitting my second pair made the all in a no brainer. I was shocked when I saw your hand tbh. No way I could have put you on KK. Unlucky mate. I'm often caught with my pants down to slow played monsters but this time I wriggled off the hook 
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Know-nuffin
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| Mad4Cards wrote: | | ...I had a little bit of the devil in me last night |
Well all get that feeling sometimes 
| Mad4Cards wrote: |
I'm often caught with my pants down.... |
Do you have photo's to prove it. 
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harry_lime
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interesting hand this one and i think when you look at it from Mad's point of view, her play is understandable.
if i have the stack, a single raise is always going to be callable in this position with almost any 2 cards. nothing much wrong with JR's play either as naturally he wants the call and to get value on his hand but as we have seen on so many occasions, it's often better to take the pot when you can rather than allow your opposition a chance to outdraw you.
for me the main problem is jr's half pot sized bet post-flop. jr invariably bets after raising post flop. i think Mad's call is very 50/50 here but i can understand her reasoning. to be honest, i think i would have been re-raising and trying to take the pot there and then in Mads position. of course in that scenario, jr would no doubt come over the top all-in and force Mad to fold. so although i don't agree with the flat call, it in fact turned out to be the most profitable play. from jr's point of view and given that flop (middling cards with a lot of draw posibilities), i think a pot sized bet would have been the correct play and no doubt forced Mad away from the hand.
i really like Mad's check on the turn but i can also fully understand the sick feeling jr must have had when she turns over 7 2 and takes him out.
i think this is one of those hands that look worse than it was with the main questions to be ask at the post flop stage.
....and i would agree with the others in talking about how many times slow playing that big pair can burn you (happened to me loads too and usually my own fault).
perhaps at bubble time, this is not the wisest choice of action.
edit : i've revised the pre-flop play a couple of posts below as a misread the hand. 
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JR
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| Mad4Cards wrote: | | Well.... the table folded around to me. In my defence I would normally just throw this hand away but I had a little bit of the devil in me last night a min raise was an easy call . The flop seemed innocent enough and I hit my top pair. Your 1/2 pot bet on the flop seemed a pretty standard move for someone with 2 over cards and was an easy call given stack sizes. I assumed incorrectly at this point that I was ahead.... but let's face it you wanted me to think that given the 2 bets you had made so far. Then the turn card.... hitting my second pair made the all in a no brainer. I was shocked when I saw your hand tbh. No way I could have put you on KK. Unlucky mate. I'm often caught with my pants down to slow played monsters but this time I wriggled off the hook |
1st of all I didn't do a minimum bet, I raised 400 on top of the 200 bb. I just think it was a very poor call with the 27 suited. I then bet 800 into a 1200 pot. Again, I think a poor call with bottom pair and aboslute worst kicker considering we were in the bubble area and with my pre-flop raise.
I don't consider either of my 1st two bets as "slow playing" a big hand as DangerMouse and Harry suggested. I'm not one to go allin with a big pocket pair pre-flop like a lot of other folks do. As for the all-in after the turn, I couldn't possibly think that the 2 would be of any help to your hand. No way I put you on 8 10 for the straight so my only concern was the you might have been slow playing pocket A's but that seemed highly unlikely after you didn't check raise me after the flop. I really had you on some middle of the road suited connector like J10.
Anyway, I know everyone can play any hand anyway they like but I just had to get this off my chest.
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DangerMouse
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I think it depends on what intent you had when you made the raise. Did you want a call or did you want to take it down? If you wanted to take it down then the 400 bet just wasn`t enough because you`re offering any hand reasonable odds against a lot of the hands you`d make that raise with., make it 800 and I think you take it pre-flop. If you wanted a call, which is perfectly fine, then you can`t really complain. Any hand Mad was likely to have was only around 20% to win. It really doesn`t matter if she calls with JQ or 7-2 there.
The flop bet is ok but Mad`s call isn`t bad either, she has to expect a continuation bet. You could have pushed much harder there but again I can see why you didn`t.
Ok so you didn`t exactly slow-play it but you played it very softly and tried to extract value from it. It backfired but that`s always the risk.
Then again I know how Mad plays and she`s not a player that realy cares about bubbling, all she wants is the win and she`ll gamble a little to get it.
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harry_lime
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| JR wrote: | | 1st of all I didn't do a minimum bet, I raised 400 on top of the 200 bb. I just think it was a very poor call with the 27 suited. |
my apologize jr, i read that slightly wrongly from the pic (thought it was saying "raised to 400" including you're 200) and in this case i think you of course spot on.
if you went to 3 times the big blind pre-flop then i feel Mad is making a dubious call here and gambling big time. let me put it this way - would you call the extra 400 with 7 2 if this was a $50 buy-in, i doubt it.
anyway, the raise was fine and of course you got the call you wanted for value.
i still think the post flop bet isn't enough to win the hand with a potentially dangerous flop which looks to offer draws.
* this is also a classic case of "know your player" as (hope you don't mind hun) Mad is the type to make these kind of loose calls on occasion and is perhaps more likely to gamble than certain others (the Sam Farha of MLP ? ). I don't mean this as a critisim particularly (i do the same some days if i'm in that mood) but i am sure the knowledge of the way this hand was played will no doubt prove useful down the line.
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Mad4Cards
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| harry_lime wrote: | | JR wrote: | | 1st of all I didn't do a minimum bet, I raised 400 on top of the 200 bb. I just think it was a very poor call with the 27 suited. |
my apologize jr, i read that slightly wrongly from the pic (thought it was saying "raised to 400" including you're 200) and in this case i think you of course spot on.
if you went to 3 times the big blind pre-flop then i feel Mad is making a dubious call here and gambling big time. let me put it this way - would you call the extra 400 with 7 2 if this was a $50 buy-in, i doubt it.
anyway, the raise was fine and of course you got the call you wanted for value.
i still think the post flop bet isn't enough to win the hand with a potentially dangerous flop which looks to offer draws.
* this is also a classic case of "know your player" as (hope you don't mind hun) Mad is the type to make these kind of loose calls on occasion and is perhaps more likely to gamble than certain others (the Sam Farha of MLP ? ). I don't mean this as a critisim particularly (i do the same some days if i'm in that mood) but i am sure the knowledge of the way this hand was played will no doubt prove useful down the line. |
You're kinda right about me..... only one difference between me and sammy. I won't/don't pull the trigger and play this loose until I'm short handed on FT. The only time you can vaguely call me a donk or a bad beat player is when it's down to 4 or 5 left in a tourney. That's when I am willing to really go for it if somebody lets me. Even with another 400 to call anything can happen HU and I had a chance to take out a player I perceived to be a threat for what was to me a very small percentage of my stack. (600 chips) If I had been asked a question after the flop I'm not too dumb to fold this hand. I may be aggressive to the extreme on FT but I aint suicidal
The only thing you say that I have any problem with Harry is the bit about the buy-in. I play to confuse and steal on any FT regardless of buy-ins. I always play for pride which makes me want to win regardless of how much I spent to get there. I would never disrespect a game because it's free or cheap to enter... to me the win is everything 
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