APF Buy-in League Game 8 - 19.04.09 - results

PoolDemon · APF Buy-in League Game 8 - 19.04.09 - results

APF Buy-in League Game 8 - 19.04.09

~ and the winner is Arjonius ~

When offering your congratulations to the prize winners, please also post and chat about important moments from the game.

Screen shots by - PoolDemon

Final Table

Click to see full size image

Final 5

Click to see full size image

Results

Click to see full size image

- More Information -
APF Bounty League #3
APF Buy-In League #8
APF HORSE League #5

APF Leagues Overview

PoolDemon

congrats on the win, & all that cashed.

Arj, if your going to make classless comments such as you did when you sucked out with king 5 (after the money went in) then don't complain when similar comments head youre way, it's a two way street.

Arjonius

I didn't start the exchange. You did by criticizing my call of your all-in with my k5 flush draw. I hit when I wasn't favored. It happens. If you knew my hand, would you want me to call? I suspect you would. If so, your problem wasn't with my call; it was with losing the hand.

And it wasn't even a huge suckout. My flush outs were live, so I had 9 twice, roughly 2:1 against. I also had a live card, so 3 more outs, minus some re-draw chances if I paired my 5 on the turn. So, I had roughly 12 outs twice, somewhere around 45%.

But there's also the bigger picture, the tournament, not just the hand. At the time, if I fold, I'd have been behind about 2:1 in chips, which more or less equates to a 2:1 underdog to win the tournament. So maybe - just maybe - playing for my entire stack on a draw as an 11:9 dog isn't the worst play ever made.

PoolDemon

critizing the hand, not the play, I typed K-5???, you typed AK?? and
i said dam suite better than K5, you said not then it wasn't.

at the time, I was still ahead, you had to hit (or lose) you didn't know if your 5 was good as i could have had 66 or better when you called yourself all in, so yes, i certainly i want the call when i'm most likey 70-30 ahead.

and again, congrats on the win.

Arjonius

You're absolutely right that I didn't have to reply to your questioning my play by questioning your. While it was tit for tat, it was peevish on my part and not classy.

As for the hand. I completed on the button for 100. you raised to 600. I think your range is wide enough there to pay an additional 7% of my stack to see the flop with K5s. If I whiff the flop, I simply fold to your probably continuation bet, and we play on with my 5k+ stack vs your 10k+.

Your push on the flop was more than 4x the pot, so kind of curious. If you had flopped more than a pair, then most or all of my flush draws are good.

If you have 66 or any other one-pair hand except AA or KK, my K outs are good too. Against those, my flush outs are still good.

If you have no pair, then unless you have Ax of hearts, my flush draws are all good, plus I have either 6 or 3 outs by pairing depending if I have one live card or two.

So putting all these together, I can pretty reasonably assume I have at least 8 or 9 outs, and possibly as many as 15. That averages out somewhere around 12 which would make you about a 55:45 favorite.

Given the actual holdings, the odds were almost exactly 55:45, not 70:30. As I already said, I have no qualms playing for my stack with those odds given the stack sizes at the time. The main thing that would deter me is if I thought I were significantly better than you, enough to make it better for me to fold and try to come back from a 2:1 chip deficit. I have more respect for your game than that.

HOUSECATS

Congrats on the win Arjonius. was a good game

PoolDemon

well we both could have done that better eh...

merge has been pissing me off lately with all the bad beats, which doesn't add well to that, & of course it happened again...but you had the odds, i don't agree on how many, but that's now irrelevant, good hit & good game.

I pushed the flop as i wasn't giving you a flush draw without paying for it, best i could do there...

CyberPRP

Congrats on the win and congrats all cashed player.

Runnymede

Many congrats to all that cashed - I was delighted not to be first out for a change

Runnymede

Arjonius

PoolDemon

no question on the numbers based on what you think is good, sorry if not clear.

I only questioned the total outs, and it's only imo was I saying the flush outs were good at the time of the call, why, well it goes with what you think I might raise you with, with you as a very experianced player, you would realize I would more likely raise only what I did with a strong hand, and most likey with my all in, implied that I may have hit, or already had a made hand, or was pushing to the nut flush draw.

I always attempt to put a player on a hand based on previous hands played, I have a great memory, & sometimes I make a weak call based on that & wining that hand, or looking real dumb trying...

Am looking forward to out next meeting HU

Arjonius

If you have the nut flush draw, then I obviously don't have 9 flush outs. However, I do have six outs to pair either of my cards except if you have A9 which takes away pairing the 5, or AT, which takes away the K. So in those cases, I'm in very bad shape.

But for the rest of your range, my flush outs were good plus I had some pair outs unless you had AA or KK.

There was even a small chance I was a slight mathematical favorite if you had pushed with a pair below 55 to bully me.

So against your entire push range, I estimated I had 10 to 12 outs, which meant about 38-45% to win the hand.

Looking at the tournament as well as the hand, I'm still okay with playing for my stack in that situation vs. folding and putting myself at a 2:1 chip deficit. I don't think my call was vastly superior to folding, but neither was it vastly inferior.

Anyway, cya at the tables.