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| harry_lime |
Bad call or justified ?Ok, we don't have much hand discussion these days, so here's one for you :Now i've just been dumped out of our Omaha Hi/Lo game by what i felt was a real freeroller type call. I don't particularly mean this as a diss on the opponent (i rarely fuss at being beat  ) but i'm interested if this was just me feeling that this was a poor call or is it justified by the eventual winners chip stack.
Hand #16262CFC3C000116: My-Local Poker Mini-League Seat 4: HarryLime. (1080,00 in chips) Seat 7: vega*** (1931,00 in chips) Seat 8: Baby*** (5327,00 in chips) Seat 10: Craz*** (1068,00 in chips) Craz***: posts small blind $100 HarryLime.: posts big blind $200 Dealt to HarryLime. [ Js Ks Kh 8d ] vega***: folds Baby***: calls eees***: folds Craz***: calls HarryLime.: raises to $800 Baby***: calls Craz***: folds @@@ F_L_O_P @@@ [ 3d Jd Ad ] HarryLime.: is all in 280.0000 Baby***: calls HarryLime.: shows Js Ks Kh 8d Baby***: shows 9d 6c 6d 2h # # # TURN # # # [ 4h ] &&& RIVER &&& [ Qc ] *** SHOW DOWN *** Baby*** wins high pot $1.180 with Flush, Ace high Baby*** wins low pot $1.180 with Ad 2h 3d 4h 6c |
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| JR |
Harry - I'm no Omaha expert (obviously from my HORSE play) but with the hi/lo game it doesn't seem like such a bad call to me three handed. If I read this right Baby has a pair, two diamonds, straight possiblities, and a couple of low cards. I may have thought you were trying to buy the pot from the big blind with two limpers. No brainer call after the flop with such a small all-in bet. | ||||||||
| harry_lime |
i actually meant the pre-flop call - sorry i didn't make that clear. 
there's just one limper calling to 200 and i raise to 800 which basically commits me all-in (i have 280 left). of course you're so right about the possibilities with Hi/Lo which is why i'm questioning and not condeming the call at that point. 
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| DangerMouse |
Can`t say I`m wild about the call, it`s not a very good hand for Om8b even 3 handed but I`ve noticed in the HORSE games that BabySoft plays very loose in Om8b and often makes these kind of calls (Just an observation no-offence intended). Odds wise and having the chip lead is still marginal. If you happen to scoop the pot (ie no low hand possible) you`ll have over 2,000 chips and be in a position to really get back into the game.
Not sure I would have pushed with your hand there either though. I know blinds are high in relation to your stack but you have no low possibility and the option of seeing a free flop. I think I would have taken that and then check-folded on the flop. That being said I understand why you pushed, I just don`t think I would have there. |
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| Miklosik |
This game is such a crapshoot. I wonder if this hand would have been played differently if it were a buy-in and not a freeroll.
I've half a mind to see every flop until my chips run out next time I play. Half the table does anyway. Of course, it would probably help if I remembered that it was H/L game. |
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| SoSoft |
I'm not sure how to feel about this, being one of the newer people here.
While I debated my call at the time, I thought my hand was reasonable considering there are only 4 people at the table, my chip lead, and because I had 2 suited cards, a pair and a possible low. I did not play it from the standpoint that I would play anything I had. While I don't claim to be an Omaha expert, I like to play the game and don't always play well. And yes, DM, I do play loosely especially at the beginning of the tourney when it is cheap to call. This is not the first Omaha H/L tourney that I have won and most were buy-in tourneys. So, I don't know for sure, but I probably wouldn't have played it too much differently had it been a buy-in. I'm sorry that you felt like it was a bad play that knocked you out Harry. I felt lucky to have won the high and the low in that hand. --- If everyone played exactly the same all the time, it would be a boring game, wouldn't it? |
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| DangerMouse |
I wouldn`t take it personally SoSoft. This is a poker forum and most of us are here to learn and discuss hands. There will always be times when someone doesn`t agree with another persons play but that`s the beauty of the game, there is no right way to play it.
As I said I meant no offence when commenting on your play. I wasn`t just making the comment out of the blue and I`d be more than willing to expand on it if asked. On a side note how have people found this series of games? I love om8b but for me it`s strictly a fixed limit game. When played PL it makes it difficult to draw to low hands after the flop. |
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| harry_lime |
generally i like it at pot limit or at limit - it's actually one of my favourite games bur i do think it the style of play varies a lot and that's probably because many still learning the game wouldn't play something like a $10 buy-in for that very reason. i think the 10 min blinds haven't helped this series and limit would have made mose sense for this (was out of my hands).
exactly right. if you read what i wrote carefully, i'm not really condeming you here SoSoft, more interested if others agreed with me or not. you could almost say i'm questioning myself as much as i'm questioning you. these kind threads should help all of us improve our game game by highlighting a mistake or even agreeing with a given play. if we just accepted everything without discussion, how would we ever improve ?
i wasn't crazy about my move either, but i felt short stacked already and with the blinds going up so fast (10 mins is way too short and a major factor here), i felt SoSoft was probably just limping to see a cheap flop. as it was i was happy enough when i saw all the cards as it gave about as decent odds i could get to double up. but again, not a move i would endorse and was very much situational to the game. |
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| PoolDemon |
just my $.02 worth, from a loose players perspective, cuz i am quite loose in this type of game. I don't think the push on your part with no low hand possible was the best, neither was the call, but 2-1 odds with a large chip stack & no real bet to follow after the flop, & a chance to put out a player, I would have called too.
& mik, being loose doesn't mean playing every hand, I play hands like KJ34 with the king suited to something, as an example, when getting at least 3-1 preflop (especially ealry on you know several are calling) I want something to play that has a possible high & low & flush draw... |
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| Miklosik |
so then you're saying that the more ppl in the hand preflop, the better? I have a hard time wrapping my pea brain around that. But I've only played the game a couple of dozen times. And I keep forgetting about the low. KJ34, I would throw it away without thinking twice. But then I would have thrown away the little pair to the raise also. When I said that half the table was seeing every flop, I in fact was NOT talking about babysoft. Although she may have, I didn't notice. |
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| SoSoft |
I think the beauty of the hi/lo games is that you get the chance to play more hands. IMHO ----- I am also a fan of fixed limit and not that comfortable with PL with blinds going up fast. It seems that Holdem players tend to over value their hands and PL just compounds the problem.
Harry, I think your hand would have been a much better call if it had been Omaha hi only. But you are right that you couldn't wait for "just the right" hand with the blinds going up and being short-stacked. And for that reason alone, I considered playing my cards. But then again, I make poor decisions all the time. 
I find that I make bad plays more often when I don't feel well or I'm very tired. Anyone else have that problem? Also, when I find myself sitting at a table with people who are playing every hand or playing wildly. I am glad that I got the chance to review this hand (in some ways) but with online being so fast paced, one doesn't always have the luxury of "thinking" about one's play all that carefully (Phil Helmuth can take 10 or 15 minutes to play his hands live). I cringe a bit when I think that every play I make might be so critiqued cause you'll find that I make a LOT of stupid plays. Can't tell you how many times I've said to myself, "what am I doing in this hand?". I'm sure you realize that many of us aren't perfect but do try to play a good game. 
I would like to see more Stud Hi/lo and draw games. (fixed limit preferably) 
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| DangerMouse |
It`s not so much that you want multiple players in the hand (Although it can be beneficial at times) but certainly in the early rounds of a game a raise is highly unlikely to get that much respect so limping in and playing lots of multi-way pots is a very viable method. I`m mainly refering to FL games, PL preflop raises can get big enough to drive out weak holdings. As the blinds increase and the stack sizes become different that`s the time to start raising your strong hands and trying to isolate to HU or 3 way. The important thing to remember about omaha and omaha8b is that they are both about playing the flop and aiming for the nut hands. Unlike HE there really isn`t a best starting hand. Ac Kc Ad Qd would be one of the best omaha starting hands and certainly worth a raise but on a flop of 5h 6d 7s your strong hand is now pretty much worthless, certainly if there are multiple callers. |
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| PoolDemon |
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| harry_lime |
i'm working on a 5 Card Draw mini-league (defending champion - DM) for next month at Doyles and i hope to have confirmation for that very soon.
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| DangerMouse |
Cool, I`ll be looking forward to that. Better bring your best game `cos I`m not giving up my title without a fight
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| PoolDemon |
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| DangerMouse |
Bring it! 
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| PoolDemon |
was that from "the good, the bad, the fugly" ??? oh & I'm a shakin in me boots bro, LOL...hehehehe | ||||||||
| DangerMouse |
It is . . . and you should be 
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| muratore |
The Good, The Bad and The Ugly 
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| SoSoft |
Cool... I'll play those.
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| PoolDemon |
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| muratore |
i know it is a movie 
we OT enough yet soon in this thread? 
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| PoolDemon |
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| Miklosik |
One last off topic thought: in the pic posted by DM, it looks like they photo shopped Blondie's image on a High Plains Drifter scene. Everything in the background has been painted red. | ||||||||
| PoolDemon |
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| alby_00 |
with 5 bb left i woulda seen the flop for free and pushed after the flop if i liked what i saw...Either that or put it all in pre-flop to exert max pressure..if she called 800 she wass calling a push so it wouldn't have made any difference...
Her play was a little loose..after hearing her thought process it makes some sense to me..especially her being big stack and looking at a chance to eliminate a quality player like harry.. I play omaha way too tight if you ask most...But this gives me allot of time to watch others starting hand selections.. Even in buy-ins there are lots of players that play almost every hand and many players would look at babysofts hand as an good hand at a full table... what it comes down to some times is when your short stack you have to pick your spot and try to double up...But always remember with nothing left in front of you you have no leverage for future streets and you will get looked up alot more with marginal hands... I don't think she did anything terribly wrong...I am tight i woulda folded pre flop..but at least 30% of players in $5 games and under would probably make that call almost every time. |
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| DangerMouse |
Nice post alby.
Just to clarify, Harry couldn`t push all-in because it was pot-limit. |
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| alby_00 |
pl lol shoulda known that..well then he did all he could pre flop...
for the record i prefer pl to limit anyday. |
