harry_lime
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Bonanza - Call or Fold 2Bonanza - Call or Fold 2
Hand 2 from yesterdays Bonanza and in this case, was my opponent Laagen (i'm not singling you out mate  ) correct to call. What do you think ?
I decide, because of my tournament position, to play a lowish pocket pair which i perhaps wouldn't have done with a bigger chip stack. I'm figuring that Laagen is most probably playing 2 high cards and have decided that if the flop looks good enough, i will check raise as i know Laagen will surely play aggressively here. The flop looks iffy but when Laagen bets, i am sure he doesn't have a king as he is more likely (especially with A K) to check if he had it. So i figure he has missed and is making a continuation bet.
Naturally i would have prefered to take the pot here but was not unhappy to see Laagen's A Q although unfortunately, the river led to my demise.
So a lot of money in the pot and Laagen has me easily covered. He probably knew he was behind at this stage and with 2 cards to come, was he correct to call here ?
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muratore
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why wouldnt he bet if he hit the K? 
and yes i think he has to call your push, considering what was already in the pot. if you had pushed flop first to act, i think he would have folded. (unless he had a K of course.. )
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harry_lime
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| muratore wrote: | why wouldnt he bet if he hit the K?
my feeling is that if he had the K, it's a perfect time to slow play to get more value on the hand. he can certainly afford to take the risk - maybe that's more of a live thing.
with a decent pre-flop raise i felt he would likely only be A K or K Q in which case slow playing has merit here.
and yes i think he has to call your push, considering what was already in the pot. if you had pushed flop first to act, i think he would have folded. (unless he had a K of course.. )
i was looking for a bet really which was why i didn't push - i just felt i was actually in good shape and was fairly sure Laagen would bet if he missed.
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no complaints, just asking the question. i wondered if anyone would have folded here.
....and loads and loads of conjecture !  
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Laagen13
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 thought you would post this hand.
As of my play, the raise with AQ in that position is nothing to talk about, the Cbet on flop is for me nothing wierd as i pretty much bet any flop with any hand even if i had floped a big hand here. Ok i know some flops where i flop quads or a full boat that i could get greedy to check instead of Cbet.
Wouldnt it be wierd if i check after have been Cbet all tournament. Still you and I had not played at the same table for a long time..
The call i think i have to do as there is to much in the pot and i get good potodds(what is that ).
Still a question for you. why did you just flatcall my raise out of position with such a short stack? I for sure didnt put you on a small pair as I thought you would push those kind of hands..
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PoolDemon
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if I'm going to play the hand, I I'd have popped it preflop, you give too much odds for the BB to call as well, 2 vs 1 with a small PP usually doesn't hold up...
1st to act after the flop, is it not better to lead out with a push & take the pot down right there, trapping is nice for flopping a set, otherwise, it's a chance, & what's in the pot easily improves you, especially if it was close to the bubble here.
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Miklosik
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shove or fold pf. If you shove, he's gonna call anyway. You know he will.
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harry_lime
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| Laagen13 wrote: | | Still a question for you. why did you just flatcall my raise out of position with such a short stack? I for sure didnt put you on a small pair as I thought you would push those kind of hands.. |
one of those little voices in my head sitautons. i was sure you would call if i pushed and wanted to see a flop before commiting. the flop was good for me and i decided to play it for a double up by check raising and was delighted when you called and hadn't hit.
i took a chance in a good position but it didn't work out.  played a little too tricky for my own good in the end.
...didn't really post this other than to get a thread going and balance out the bad beat Pool got from me. 
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Laagen13
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Okey...well still surprised that you so fast pushed with youre stack. but i thought you pretty much had hit the king. But as greenstein says "Ace on the river"
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harry_lime
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| Laagen13 wrote: | | Okey...well still surprised that you so fast pushed with youre stack. but i thought you pretty much had hit the king. But as greenstein says "Ace on the river" |
well that's because i wanted the call. ....ah, the best laid plans.
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DangerMouse
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If Marcus had folded there he`d have deserved lynching. The size of his c-bet commits him to the pot. The re-raise has zero fold equity in this situation but you knew that and knew that most of the time you`re ahead here.
As someone else said the most surprising part of this hand is the pre-flop play. To me that`s a push or fold situation and most of the time it`s a fold. Even though a lot of the time you`re marginally ahead here my first rule of short-stack play applies. . .
Get your money in first and give your opponents the tough decisions whilst you maintain as much fold equity as possible.
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HOUSECATS
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With the pot that size he has to call your push for that small price. If he would of checked then your push would work. But when he c-bet that pretty much made him committed to any play you made.
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Laagen13
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Just something i been thinking about. is my Cbet to high, as a 500 bet would be very small for the pot and would get pretty tempted to call there aswell...
any sugestions of a better Cbet?
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harry_lime
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| Laagen13 wrote: | Just something i been thinking about. is my Cbet to high, as a 500 bet would be very small for the pot and would get pretty tempted to call there aswell...
any sugestions of a better Cbet? |
it did look like a continuation bet that seemed liked you'd missed which was certainly how i read it. with my stack, this wasn't a big deal as you pretty much commit me anyway. against a bigger stack, i think you need to be betting closer to three quarters or pot size, so somewhere around 750 - 1000.
just my thoughts, anyone else ?
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DangerMouse
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| harry_lime wrote: | | Laagen13 wrote: | Just something i been thinking about. is my Cbet to high, as a 500 bet would be very small for the pot and would get pretty tempted to call there aswell...
any sugestions of a better Cbet? |
it did look like a continuation bet that seemed liked you'd missed which was certainly how i read it. with my stack, this wasn't a big deal as you pretty much commit me anyway. against a bigger stack, i think you need to be betting closer to three quarters or pot size, so somewhere around 750 - 1000.
just my thoughts, anyone else ? |
2/3rds to 3/4 is a pretty standard c-bet.
In this case as Marcus is clearly intending to call the re-shove I would have been tempted to put Harry all-in and apply maximum pressure.
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harry_lime
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| harry_lime wrote: | | Laagen13 wrote: | Just something i been thinking about. is my Cbet to high, as a 500 bet would be very small for the pot and would get pretty tempted to call there aswell...
any sugestions of a better Cbet? |
it did look like a continuation bet that seemed liked you'd missed which was certainly how i read it. with my stack, this wasn't a big deal as you pretty much commit me anyway. against a bigger stack, i think you need to be betting closer to three quarters or pot size, so somewhere around 750 - 1000.
just my thoughts, anyone else ? |
i gaffed here didn't i.
750 is a good atandard CBet but as DM points out, an all-in would have caused maximum pressure.
i'd like to think i still would have made the call but who knows in the situation.
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