This hand is from tonights bounty game. It seemed to stir up a little controversy or at least surprise and as a result I`ve decided to post it here. Let me know what you think. My reasons for playing the hand are in the spoiler.
Hand #16402F28FE000079: Alternate-Poker Bounty Mini-League
Seat 1: r0n1*** (3869.00 in chips)
Seat 3: Mikx*** (928.00 in chips)
Seat 5: Reno*** (1523.00 in chips)
Seat 6: Harr*** (4546.00 in chips)
Seat 9: DangerMouseX (5634.00 in chips)
Harr***: posts small blind $50
DangerMouseX: posts big blind $100
Dealt to DangerMouseX [ 6s ]
r0n1***: folds
Mikx***: raises to $350
Reno***: folds
Harr***: folds
DangerMouseX: calls
@@@ F_L_O_P @@@ [ 5h 2c 8d ]
DangerMouseX: checks
Mikx***: bets $375
DangerMouseX: raises to $750
Mikx***: is all in 203.0000
DangerMouseX: returns uncalled bet $172
Mikx***: shows Js Jc
DangerMouseX: shows 6s
# # # TURN # # # [ 8s ]
&&& RIVER &&& [ 7c ]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
DangerMouseX wins $1,906 with Straight, Eight high
Tournament: DangerMouseX wins $1 bounty.
Spoiler:
Ok. From my point of view. I was aware Mik had a big hand and had a strong suspicion it was a large pp (I would have expected a push with AK, AQ, AJ etc). However, I have the chip lead and the price to see a flop is minimal. Plus there is a bounty at stake. My intention is to see the flop and then play it from there. If I miss completely I fold and nothing has really changed in the great scheme of things.
When the flop first hit I noticed straight away I had a gutshot draw. It took me a couple of seconds longer to realise I had a double-belly buster. I opted to check because I was happy to see a free card and I wanted to see where Mik was in the hand.
When she led out just over half her remaining stack I opted for the check-raise to give me the chance of an elimination. I had 8 outs meaning I`d win the hand about 1 in 3 times and knowing that there`d be no more bets to face on the turn and river. Again even if I double Mik up I`d still be chip leader and in strong contention to take the win.
Miklosik
So what was the controvery? I was gone at that point and had to find a replacement monitor so I could finish taking screen shots. Seriously tho DM, you had the chips to gamble with even if I didn't like the preflop call. Just a perk of the big stack.
SoSoft
except for it being a bummer for Mik that you got the straight, it looked like a good call. Your explanation seemed right on to me.
harry_lime
i'm not sure what you mean by controversial here DM, i guess you're referring to me saying that it was an "ugly" looking hand. ugly looking does not necessarily mean badly paid.
by ugly (from where i was sitting) i meant this :
- you're calling a 3½ x BB raise with a junky hand (you could afford it)
- we both know Mik is highly unlikely to be raising without a decent hand (and the big pair always looked likely here)
- to an extent Mik's raise pretty much commits her all-in, so essentially you're pre-flop call is 928 as you know that this will almost certainly be the eventual cost (again - you could afford it)
- coming over the top on the flop is no problem with the 8 outs, once again you could afford.
- from Miks point of view, i'm sure if she could have seen your cards, she would have been begging you to call as she couldn't have wish for a much better possibility to double-up (aces wouldn't have helped anymore). she really had to play for the chips here to give herself a chance of winning.
- your logic on the hand makes perfect sense. i might not have called pre-flop (purely because i'm out of position against what i would perceive as probable big hand form a solid player) but i don't think there's much wrong with doing so given your chip stack.
so when you take all that into account, that's why it was ugly looking to me, rather than a particularly badly played hand. a bit like a defender scoring an own goal - ugly but you can't really knock him for going for it ...that's a terrible analogy.
DangerMouse
harry_lime wrote:
i'm not sure what you mean by controversial here DM, i guess you're referring to me saying that it was an "ugly" looking hand. ugly looking does not necessarily mean badly paid.
Yeah that was what I was refering to.
harry_lime wrote:
by ugly (from where i was sitting) i meant this :
- you're calling a 3½ x BB raise with a junky hand (you could afford it).
to an extent Mik's raise pretty much commits her all-in, so essentially you're pre-flop call is 928 as you know that this will almost certainly be the eventual cost (again - you could afford it).
It`s only 250 for me to call. Had I not been in the BB I wouldn`t have made the call. Initially then I`m calling 250 to win 500, 2-1 odds. If Mik has 2 overcards I`m not quite getting the right odds but I`m not too far off. If as I suspect Mik has a big pp then I need 4-1 odds to make the call. But I know Mik is most likely going to be pot commited and that means if I hit the flop I`ll be getting 1075 chips which gives me the correct implied odds to call. 250/1075 just over 4-1.
I don`t really agree that I`m commited for the entire 928 with the pre-flop call. If I miss the flop completely I`m just going to check-fold.
harry_lime wrote:
- from Miks point of view, i'm sure if she could have seen your cards, she would have been begging you to call as she couldn't have wish for a much better possibility to double-up (aces wouldn't have helped anymore). she really had to play for the chips here to give herself a chance of winning.
I`m sure she would. The problem with the hand was that Mik tried to get value from a pp when holding less than 10xbb. If she pushes pre-flop my hand goes in the muck and she`s up a set of blinds. If I`d had a mid range stack it might have worked but the call was very cheap for me especially when you look at the implied odds.
I will agree it was ugly but it does very nicely demonstrate the concept of implied odds.
harry_lime
DangerMouse wrote:
I will agree it was ugly but it does very nicely demonstrate the concept of implied odds.
....exactly right !
i almost never critisize at the table (never saw the point) but you'll know when i'm really questioning a play or upset at a beat, as the infamous harry "hmmmmmmmm" usually comes into effect.
6s ]
Seriously tho DM, you had the chips to gamble with even if I didn't like the preflop call. Just a perk of the big stack.
