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muratore
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Desicions Decisions Decisions..Played a 7 man game tonight with an interesting board and action in the first hand.
UTG opens to 3 bb, button calls
Flop 44A rainbow, UTG bets 2bb, button call
Turn A, rainbow, check check
River 4,
Here is the question for you.. what bets would you call with what hands if you are the player on the button?
As you can see, the board is a Full House here, 4s over Aces.
Scenario 1
Lets say you dont have an Ace nor a 4 in your hand, how big of a bet would you call here on the river? unless your opponent has an Ace or a 4, you both play the board and you have the same hand, the pot will be split.
Scenario 2
Lets say you Have an Ace in your hand, now your hand is better than the board since your Full House is Aces over 4s, but you are still beat if the bettor has a 4 in his hand and split if he has the 4th Ace.
Would you just call his river bet here or would you raise? everything of course depending on size of his river bet of course..
If he check again, how big would you bet here for value?
Scenario 3
Lets say you sit with a 4 in your hand, your hand now is Quad 4s, the only hand that could beat you is if the other guy sits with AA in his hand.
Same question as above, would you reraise his river bet and if so by how much?
If he check again, how big would you bet here for value?
The board in this hand i think made for some interesting thinking and i just wanted to see if i could get some interesting thoughts from my fellow MLP:ers to see what you would do in the different cases listed above..
So lets go folks... dazzle me with your master minds.. what would your action be here in the different cases, what is the best way to approach this in your own mind?
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Miklosik
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how many chips does everyone have? UTG is not raising 3xBB preflop with a four. He has a strong Ace or maybe 2 of them, or a high pair. If he checks the river, throw out a big one. If he bets, and you have the chips then either call or min reraise to take his temp.
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muratore
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it is the first hand, so everyone have the startstack infront of them, no one more than anyone else at the table.
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Know-nuffin
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Re: Desicions Decisions Decisions.. | muratore wrote: |
Scenario 3
Lets say you sit with a 4 in your hand, your hand now is Quad 4s, the only hand that could beat you is if the other guy sits with AA in his hand.
Same question as above, would you reraise his river bet and if so by how much? |
This is so much happening above to answer in them all in a definite way.
With scenario 3, If I have quad 4's I am never going to think I am behind, I'll call anything, I'll raise anything. How much depends on the player's name. As this is the first hand I may have no info on the player, so if the player has a sensible name (john smith) I will make a single raise. If the guy want to portray a funster with his screen name (RivRYRA$$), I'm all in.
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PoolDemon
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in all three scenerios, as it's the first hand, & so little in the pot, as they barely bet the flop & checked the turn, it's very unlikely they would bet a large amount on the river, even if holding the nuts, too big a bet the other if not holding an ace or 4 prob folds, so i would guess to see no more than a pot sized or a bit more bet on the river, & if not holding the nuts a call, or raise of the bet holding the nuts...
You can't instantly put either player on a hand...not from that betting,
it's possible they both missed & are playing the board, in any spot, check call would prob happen...
sooo to answer your questions...
sc 1 i can't see the bet to be more than maybe 2-3 times what in the pot at the max, i think i'd call...
sc2 if he checked the river, so would i, as your opening up to a re-raise back at you, maybe bluff, maybe real, ealy hand, lots of time to hit others...
sc3 same as sc2, without the nuts, on a strange board like that, even though it's unlikely to be up against quads, just call, & get ready to say, nice hand...
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Ramster
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To be totally honest i would never come up against this situation because on the turn i would be putting in at least a pot sized bet
I would wanna know where i stood in the hand before the river on a board like that
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zarger11
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Re: Desicions Decisions Decisions.. | muratore wrote: |
Scenario 1
Lets say you dont have an Ace nor a 4 in your hand, how big of a bet would you call here on the river? unless your opponent has an Ace or a 4, you both play the board and you have the same hand, the pot will be split.
In this Senario, I am not sure I call much more than a 1/3 value bet. There is nothing we can beat but a hand that plays the board, and considering he opened UTG, I can give him credit for an A. I am not too worried about losing the pot in this situation.
Scenario 2
Lets say you Have an Ace in your hand, now your hand is better than the board since your Full House is Aces over 4s, but you are still beat if the bettor has a 4 in his hand and split if he has the 4th Ace.
Would you just call his river bet here or would you raise? everything of course depending on size of his river bet of course..
If he check again, how big would you bet here for value?
I would never just call his river bet here. With an A, I am raising him 1.5 times his bet for value if his bet is weak. If he bets at least the pot, I am pushing him all in. I would never put him on a 4, since i cant see him raising pre UTG with a 4 in his hand without 44.
Scenario 3
Lets say you sit with a 4 in your hand, your hand now is Quad 4s, the only hand that could beat you is if the other guy sits with AA in his hand.
Same question as above, would you reraise his river bet and if so by how much?
If he check again, how big would you bet here for value?
I would raise the his bet, if a weak one, 2.5x his bet. I want to get as much value as possible from him. If he bets at least the pot, again, I am going all in because he isnt folding a single A and if he has AA...SO BE IT, im never folding quads.
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KNOWHEN2
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Re: Desicions Decisions Decisions.. | muratore wrote: | Played a 7 man game tonight with an interesting board and action in the first hand.
UTG opens to 3 bb, button calls
Flop 44A rainbow, UTG bets 2bb, button call
Turn A, rainbow, check check
River 4,
Here is the question for you.. what bets would you call with what hands if you are the player on the button?
As you can see, the board is a Full House here, 4s over Aces.
Scenario 1
Lets say you dont have an Ace nor a 4 in your hand, how big of a bet would you call here on the river? unless your opponent has an Ace or a 4, you both play the board and you have the same hand, the pot will be split.
If i miss the flop then With no hand no call. Its to early to be gambling.
Scenario 2
Lets say you Have an Ace in your hand, now your hand is better than the board since your Full House is Aces over 4s, but you are still beat if the bettor has a 4 in his hand and split if he has the 4th Ace.
Would you just call his river bet here or would you raise? everything of course depending on size of his river bet of course..
If he check again, how big would you bet here for value?
If i'am holding an A i re-raise his 2 x BB bet on the flop so maybe the hand stops there, but a lot of players on line will open up UTG with A rag and if the rag is 4 or an UTG A +paint and he pushes back, its only the first hand don't get busted.
Scenario 3
Lets say you sit with a 4 in your hand, your hand now is Quad 4s, the only hand that could beat you is if the other guy sits with AA in his hand.
Same question as above, would you reraise his river bet and if so by how much?
If he check again, how big would you bet here for value?
If i'am holding a 4 it would have to be A4, (if I play it at all) so I would bet the pot on the check if he pushes back then I mmmm. If i'am on the river with Quad 4s I bet the pot and if he pushes back I mmmm.
My one big thing is this 'never bust on the first hand'
The board in this hand i think made for some interesting thinking and i just wanted to see if i could get some interesting thoughts from my fellow MLP:ers to see what you would do in the different cases listed above..
So lets go folks... dazzle me with your master minds.. what would your action be here in the different cases, what is the best way to approach this in your own mind? |
Not sure id go to the river here.
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PoolDemon
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I just realized, this must have been a cash game, not a tournament, as mura says he played at a 7 man table...
That kinda changes things, have to be much more aggresive in cash play over tournaments...we need to know the blinds, if it was 100-200 buck blinds, or .10.20, huge difference... 
would be nice to know what they really had, & then go over the play, playing out that hand in my head, I would think UTG had a big ace...& by only betting 2x the BB after SB checked flop & getting called, maybe thought that SB held A4...how often do you see someone first to act betting when they flop a full house, not too often for sure...checking the turn as a feeler, expecting utg to bet again & having them check it also, very strange, a bet is needed here at the very least to get a decent amount bet on the river, no real chips or money in the pot here (maybe you can expand on that mura...)
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muratore
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| PoolDemon wrote: | I just realized, this must have been a cash game, not a tournament, as mura says he played at a 7 man table...
That kinda changes things, have to be much more aggresive in cash play over tournaments...we need to know the blinds, if it was 100-200 buck blinds, or .10.20, huge difference...
would be nice to know what they really had, & then go over the play, playing out that hand in my head, I would think UTG had a big ace...& by only betting 2x the BB after SB checked flop & getting called, maybe thought that SB held A4...how often do you see someone first to act betting when they flop a full house, not too often for sure...checking the turn as a feeler, expecting utg to bet again & having them check it also, very strange, a bet is needed here at the very least to get a decent amount bet on the river, no real chips or money in the pot here (maybe you can expand on that mura...) |
it was a tournament with 7 starters so it was in deed tournament play and not cash game
and the players involved were utg and button, sb folded preflop.
The thread was built up from an acctual hand but the way it goes on i think it is kind of irrelevant what they held in that hand i got the cards from.
but since you asked so politely  UTG had AA and bet smallish bet on river that got called by QJo.
thats what gave me the idea to this thread, how much would we be prepared to call with a boarded full house, and then i just evolved it more and more and not realy sure what kind of monster i created here 
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