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DangerMouse
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Did I Play This Badly?Did I play this badly?
3 players remaining, blinds 100/200
Villain has been hitting everything. Has staged a major comeback from 99 chips.
utg/button (Hero) 6181
sb 1257
villain bb 3262
I`m dealt KK and raise to 700. I`ve been aggressive but not ridiculously agg.
sb folds
bb calls 500
pot 1500
flop 6c Ac Ad
bb bets 800
I`m not convinced he has an ace, although it crosses my mind that he perhaps has a weak ace and is testing the waters. I also consider he has a pp.
I call
pot 3100
turn 7h
bb bets 800
At this point I was pretty happy I was ahead and considered re-raising or pushing.
Instead I call
river 2c
bb checks and I figure I`m probably ahead but it`s not worth betting as I`ll only be called if I`m beaten so I check.
Villain has Kc 10c
I think the aces blinded me to the flush draw. Not sure if he`d have called if I push on the turn, I think he has to really. Also rather surprised he didn`t push at the end, I think I have to call. I suspect he thought I`d push if he checked and showed weakness or he thought that I`d made a boat.
I certainly lost the minimum but could I have won the hand at any stage post flop? Opinions?
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Know-nuffin
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Yep, you can't assume villain has an ace and you seem to have a good read on him/her.
The 1/2 pot bet on a flop with 2 suited showing would have me thinking to kill the hand early.
Unless you were thinking villain would have shoved, you could have raised to say 2400.
It looks easy in hindsight.
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PoolDemon
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pushing would only have been effective if he was in fold mode, you say he was catching coming back from almost no chips, and if there are 3 left, I asume all 3 are in the $$$, & far too many put too much value in a flush draw, that I can't see that he would have folded, so even though the right play would be a large raise back, I would think he would have called, so really, you got off as cheap as you could, with enough chips left to still win, I think it was good given the circumstances...
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Arjonius
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I'm not keen on the passive line of check-calling post-flop. if you're willing to call 800 (or whatever amount), then why not bet out and try to get control of the hand? On this hand, I suspect he'll call, but at least you'll know he has something, even if it's just a draw.
A further reason for betting is that I want him to think that if he calls, he'll face another bet on the turn. He won't shut down if he has an A (or 66), but there's at least a fair chance he will if he doesn't.
Given the actual flop action, I also dislike the second check-call. If he's on a draw, why give him the chance for a free card? If you price him out and he folds, you put a nice dent in his stack. If he calls (and wins), you made the mathematically correct play in a situation where I see no obvious reason to play fancy.
Since the flush card does come on the end, I may well lose more chips on the hand than you did, but deciding what was best based on what happened is a trap. I still think taking the lead on this hand is definitely a superior line.
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DangerMouse
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It might be a first but I think I`m going to answer my own question.
Post flop the pot is 1500
he bets 800 = 2300
he has 1900 left
If I put him all-in that would make the pot 4800 giving him virtually the correct odds to call. He`s getting 2.5-1 he has a 35% chance of hitting his flush. He`s a little shy but if he wins he is chip leader by a big margin and stands to win the game and he`s already cashed as Rob pointed out.
On the turn the pot is 3100
He bets 800 = 3900
He has 1100 left
If I put him all-in the pot would be 5800. He would be getting 5.27-1 on a 19.6% draw. He has odds to call.
Maybe he would have folded to a push on the flop/turn but I`m inclined to think not.
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DangerMouse
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| Arjonius wrote: | I'm not keen on the passive line of check-calling post-flop. if you're willing to call 800 (or whatever amount), then why not bet out and try to get control of the hand? On this hand, I suspect he'll call, but at least you'll know he has something, even if it's just a draw.
A further reason for betting is that I want him to think that if he calls, he'll face another bet on the turn. He won't shut down if he has an A (or 66), but there's at least a fair chance he will if he doesn't.
Given the actual flop action, I also dislike the second check-call. If he's on a draw, why give him the chance for a free card? If you price him out and he folds, you put a nice dent in his stack. If he calls (and wins), you made the mathematically correct play in a situation where I see no obvious reason to play fancy.
Since the flush card does come on the end, I may well lose more chips on the hand than you did, but deciding what was best based on what happened is a trap. I still think taking the lead on this hand is definitely a superior line. |
Ok the check call wasn`t a check call. He was BB I was button. It was his bet my call, his bet my call. I call the first because I`m not convinced he has an ace but I`m worried he might have one with a very weak kicker. His bet on the turn that`s the same size as the previous bet makes me about 75% certain I`m ahead. As I said I thought he probably had a pp that wasn`t AA or 66. When the river comes the board is too dangerous for me to bet into and as he gives me the chance to see his hand for free I take it. I`m only called if I`m beaten.
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PoolDemon
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| Arjonius wrote: |
those are valid points(cept the check call in this particular hand), but as the worlds most dangerous mouse pointed out, the chipstack size plays an important part in the betting, it's not being passive by being aware that a raise to the bet on the flop would be more than likely called, & most definetly called on the turn, & then losing even more chips than were lost, better to know more than just one strategy in poker, as in this case, you just know what they will do, (maybe re-read my above post also if you didn't read it)
& a big MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO teamie, always like looking @ hands like this...
I'm not keen on the passive line of check-calling post-flop. if you're willing to call 800 (or whatever amount), then why not bet out and try to get control of the hand? On this hand, I suspect he'll call, but at least you'll know he has something, even if it's just a draw.
A further reason for betting is that I want him to think that if he calls, he'll face another bet on the turn. He won't shut down if he has an A (or 66), but there's at least a fair chance he will if he doesn't.
Given the actual flop action, I also dislike the second check-call. If he's on a draw, why give him the chance for a free card? If you price him out and he folds, you put a nice dent in his stack. If he calls (and wins), you made the mathematically correct play in a situation where I see no obvious reason to play fancy.
Since the flush card does come on the end, I may well lose more chips on the hand than you did, but deciding what was best based on what happened is a trap. I still think taking the lead on this hand is definitely a superior line. |
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Arjonius
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Hmm. Dunno where I read check-calling into this, but anyway...
Although I dislike it less, I'm still not sold on the passive line. Raising his flop bet to put him in is likely to get called with the flush draw. However, you're playing against his range of hands, not just a flush draw. Based on his out of position pre-flop call with KTs, he would seem to have a fairly wide range, although we do have to factor in that he'd likely check-fold some of those holdings.
Since he did bet the flop, you're not in an easy situation because his range is probably polarized; i.e. you're probably a solid favorite (at least 3:1) or a big dog (3:1 at best). Calling isn't awful here. You're hoping his action on the turn will indicate whether you're ahead or behind.
On this hand, it works. You should put him all in. So what if he has pot odds to call with his draw? You don't want to play for the rest of his chips as better than a 4:1 favorite with one pull to come?
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