Pinpointing where it all starts to go wrong

Miklosik · Pinpointing where it all starts to go wrong

Recently, I've been going pretty deep in the few tournaments I play. However, there seems to a particular time when things start to go terribly wrong. And, believe it or not, it's usually NOT because of stupid play. Hands like this one always seem to pop up and turn the tide. A hand like this is no one's fault, but it works like crystal ball in that it allows me to see my future in tournament. When it happens once, it continues until I'm busted.

harry_lime

Unfortunately, unless you get the raises in pre-flop at this stage of the tourney, hands like this will always happen.

Of course, raising doesn't guarantee the occasional bad beat either but will certainly cut the odds down a bit.

Horrible when this happens though as you had to love your position when the cards were turned over.

Miklosik

actually, I was just splashing around a bit as I had a sizeable stack. In mid postion, this is not my fav hand but I thought if I could see a cheap flop that I wouldn't be out much if the flop was a flop. Even after this hand I had a decent stack, but it was the beginning of the end.

Ramster

He's not going anywhere on that flop
You just got unlucky Mik

Just a couple if thoughts though

Why limp

and i dont really like getting it all in without the nuts when the blinds have got in for cheap

I know its a draw heavy board but i think waiting for the turn might have been better (even though it probly wouldnt have made any difference)

addam00

ya I kinda have the same problemn in tournaments and i wanjt notice alot people liek to take more chances to bguild up there stacks and go for the win..... so i guess people are little game more

Miklosik

so you guys would raise with that hand in that position? How much? Thanks btw, it gives me new perspective.

muratore

harry_lime

Ramster

like Mura said

Miklosik

Alrighty then, i really must say that you all have me second guessing myself now. At the time of this hand I was chipleader with 75k chips. 2nd had 55k and was at another table. I truly thought it was an ok hand to play here regardless of table postion.

muratore

but why limp and invite the rest of the table to a cheap flop? you will have no idea where you are when the flop comes.

if you have a stack and a hand you want to play, better to raise and limit the number of ppl you go up against, even if you get a call it will be much easier to take the pot down on the flop against fewer players than half the table..

and like i said in my previous post, if somone reraises, you can reevaluate the situation (and QTd is a hand i would most likely fold to a reraise preflop)

harry_lime

...also bear in mind that when your chip leader, it's generally better to systematically put pressure on your opponents with pre-flop raises and bully some easy chips. the trick here is to keep accumulating without putting too much of your stack at risk.

you'll also find that players will fold to your BB's as you'll be seen as a raising player and with the biggest stack, players will tend to want to avoid you.

in the end, it has a lot to do with table image and will stand you in good stead as the tourney progresses. you're already the chip leader and better to be seen as playing tight/aggressive at this point as this will allow you to steal a lot of easy pots from the lower stacks and keep accumulating.

...my 2 cents anyway.

Ramster

What you gotta do is look beyond the result of the hand and ask yourself
"Did i do the right thing"
Fair enough you say you had enough chips to "splash around" but you can never have enough chips till you gottem all
Also you say hands like this turn the tide
Are they putting you on tilt. If so you gotta learn to to let it go and move on to the next hand without letting it affect your future decision making

Arjonius

QT in MP is certainly sufficient to play when you're a large stack on your table and first to act. But as the others have said, bet out rather than limping. The bet size should be the same as if you have a strong hand.

Your holding is only a bit better than average, but the opponents don't know that. When someone has a strong enough hand to comes over the top vs your big stack, you fold and lose about 3BB. No big deal.

The key question is what proportion of hands they'll call with, both in position and in the blinds. That depends somewhat on the players and how much they like to see flops, but basically, there aren't all that many hands people will call with. So you win 1.5 BB fairly often.

When you are called by someone in position, you can lead out on many flops whether you connected or not. Opponents who missed usually fold. So will most small and even mid pairs who were set mining.

And when you're called in the blinds, you have position. People who miss the flop will often check and fold when you continuation bet.

Also as noted, if you limp, you make it cheap for others to do so as well. But that's not all. Since you haven't shown strength, the range of hands with which people will raise you is larger than if you limp.

PoolDemon

yeah, if your gonna play it, raise with it, it's not a great hand, mid-position, playing into the chance of a RR back @ you & have to fold, but way better to raise than limp...

as for the 5 on the river, well heck, it's merge, u had to know it was gonna hit

Miklosik

Thank you all so much for the lesson. I learn so much from all of you. Next time I promise to do you all proud and raise. (even though you thought I should fold.) The point being that there will be no limping.

And Den, that hand absolutely did not put me on tilt. The guy that won had a legitimate hand post flop and in the same situation, I would have played it also. Can't get mad at a guy for that.

PoolDemon

heya Mik, just to clear it up, yeah it was not a great hand, but if we only wait to play a great hand we don't go anywhere, that's why several said, if you play it, raise with it, 10-5 is usually not calling a 3x the BB raise, unless his name is Gus

jolub

This would be easy to say that what's you get for staying on crap but this happens even with good cards. You get out drawn. I don't think a big bet would have gotten the other person out, not with two pairs. All I can say is when this happens my cards are normally dead for the tournament.

Miklosik

harry_lime

i'm saying nothing !!!

PoolDemon

merge, nuff said...

MrBadBeat

Ow! That must have hurt. With regards to the earlier hand, Mik, I think the guys have been a bit tough on you. The fact is Q10 isn't a great hand, but you wanted to see a flop. You saw it cheaply and hit it very well. You were nicely ahead and then you got rivered. I don't think you did a lot wrong. But hey, what do I know?

Know-nuffin

Miklosik