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DangerMouse
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Razz Hand - Make Up Your Own MindsA hand from a HORSE tourney. The round is Razz.
Razz hand. Ante 50, 500/1000
(3,870 ) Villain - J posts ante 50. Brings-in 125
Player1 - 8 posts ante 50. Folds
(4,960) Hero - (5, 6) 8 posts ante 50 Completes 500
player3 - 2 posts ante 50 Folds
player4 - 8 posts ante 50 Folds
Villain calls.
Pot 1250
4th street
Villain J,Q
Hero (5,6 ) 8 K
Villain bets 500
Hero calls
Pot 2250
5th street
Villain J,Q,2
Hero (5,6 ) 8, K, K
Villain bets 1000
Hero calls
Pot 4250
6th street
Villain J,Q,2, 4
Hero (5,6 ) 8, K, K, 7
Villain bets 1000
Hero calls
Pot 6250
7th street
Villain J,Q,2, 4
Hero (5,6 ) 8, K, K, 7 ( 2)
Villain all-in for 870
Hero calls
Villain has A 2 4 6 J (Q A)
Hero has 2 5 6 7 8 (K K)
Hero wins 7,990
Villain - out
So I ended up the winner but was it a calculated move on my part or was it extreme fishiness by me? Don`t hold back, tell me what you think and I`ll respond accordingly. 
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Miklosik
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I probably would have folded after villian's bet on 5th st. I would assume his hole cards are lower than his JQ and at this point you have to use a K in your hand. But now that I've written this, I'm thinking a little different. Chances of you drawing yet another K is miniscule so 6th st. almost certainly gives you the better hand. Razz is a quirky game and so long as your hi is lower than his hi you're good to go. Well played.
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Know-nuffin
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Horrible hand.  Even though villain was not strong on 4th and 5th I wouldn't call.
If you wanted to play strong with a K on show you could have gone over the top on 4th.
Depening on stacks etc... I may have folded on 4th.
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Arjonius
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Can't say I like this hand. Leading out with a very rough 8 is OK, but depending on the table, so is limping. I'm not real happy calling if the other 8 or the 2 raise, and not even all that keen if they just call. Given they didn't, and the bring-in did call with a J, it worked out fine, but the result doesn't justify the action.
I may simply fold on 4th street. I'm only one card behind, but I'm still behind. Villain is obviously willing to bet with a small edge, so unless he catches bad and I catch good on 5th, it looks like he'll bet again. While the pot is laying me apparently decent odds, there are too many bad or unclear situations that can arise on 5th street.
Guessing based on the limits, it looks fairly late in the tournament. It seems like I only have enough chips to play one big pot, so adding in this factor, I'd rather try to play one when I'm slightly ahead (or a lot ahead), not behind.
Folding on 5th is easy. Even if the 2 paired him, I'm still behind. If it didn't, I'm probably two cards behind, which means I need to catch perfect perfect - and could still lose if he catches too.
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DangerMouse
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Ok, if you said fold on 4th street go immediately to the back of the class lol. I`m not claiming I knew the exact percentages at the time but on 4th street I`m actually 67% to win the hand. If anything my call should have been a raise. I was actually thinking I was around 55% there, but I knew I was in front.
5th street was a tough decision but because I was only drawing to beat his J and I considered it possible he might have paired the 2 I decided to make the call. If I catch a brick on 6th I can lay it down and still have enough chips to perhaps make a recovery. I`m also hoping that he will catch a bad card. (The odds have flipped though and he`s now around 67% to win)
On 6th I get a half decent card, I would have prefered something A-4 but it`s good enough. Unfortunately he also gets what looks like a good card. Now though the pot is just too big to lay down when I feel I have a decent chance of not only winning the hand but eliminating a player. Plus I know I`m only drawing to beat a J. If I catch anything in the A to 4 range he will have to draw an 8 or less that doesn`t pair his hand. Three of the 8s are already out which gives him less cards to draw to and equally importantly gives me less chance of pairing another of my cards. (The odds here are roughly 65/35 in his favour).
I`ll be the first to admit that it was a risky hand to play. There was as Arjonius pointed out some risk in making the completion but given the table conditions and what I thought my table image was I considered it worthwhile. The later streets are definitely a gamble by me but by that point if I fold I`m going to be in poor shape anyway, whereas if I win I`m in a strong position to make a run at the tourney.
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DangerMouse
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| Arjonius wrote: |
Folding on 5th is easy. Even if the 2 paired him, I'm still behind. If it didn't, I'm probably two cards behind, which means I need to catch perfect perfect - and could still lose if he catches too. |
Just ran this through the simulator. If the 2 had paired him giving him A,2,J,Q,2 against my 5,6,8,K,K. It would have been 50.54% vs 49.46% in his favour.
It`s true he could outdraw me even if I hit but it`s also possible he can catch a brick on 6th. If he hits a Jack or higher or pairs one of his other cards I go to a 65% favourite, a ten would make me 55% and a 9 makes us exactly even at a 50/50.
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KNOWHEN2
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At 4th street both of u are playing fishy cards and chasing to get lucky, the kind of thing we see online in razz,omaha often.
But it worked .
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Arjonius
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| DangerMouse wrote: | | Just ran this through the simulator. If the 2 had paired him giving him A,2,J,Q,2 against my 5,6,8,K,K. It would have been 50.54% vs 49.46% in his favour. |
Except for some unlikely cases such as he was already paired, the 2 pairing is your best case scenario. And you're still slightly behind.
What about the rest of his hand range? Based on the actual holdings, it seems you're about a 7:3 dog.
| Quote: | | It`s true he could outdraw me even if I hit but it`s also possible he can catch a brick on 6th. If he hits a Jack or higher or pairs one of his other cards I go to a 65% favourite, a ten would make me 55% and a 9 makes us exactly even at a 50/50. |
Again, you're only putting forth scenarios that work in your favor. What about the rest of the possibilities?
And yes, I was wrong about being behind on 4th.
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DangerMouse
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| Arjonius wrote: | | DangerMouse wrote: | | Just ran this through the simulator. If the 2 had paired him giving him A,2,J,Q,2 against my 5,6,8,K,K. It would have been 50.54% vs 49.46% in his favour. |
Except for some unlikely cases such as he was already paired, the 2 pairing is your best case scenario. And you're still slightly behind.
What about the rest of his hand range? Based on the actual holdings, it seems you're about a 7:3 dog. . |
I put the actual percentages in an earlier response. He was 67% on 5th
| Arjonius wrote: |
| Quote: | | It`s true he could outdraw me even if I hit but it`s also possible he can catch a brick on 6th. If he hits a Jack or higher or pairs one of his other cards I go to a 65% favourite, a ten would make me 55% and a 9 makes us exactly even at a 50/50. |
Again, you're only putting forth scenarios that work in your favor. What about the rest of the possibilities?
And yes, I was wrong about being behind on 4th. |
I already covered the possibilities if I hit badly on 6th. I`m not just covering possibilities that work in my favour. I`m just pointing out that his hand is just as liable to go wrong on 6th or 7th street as mine is.
I`m not saying this wasn`t a gamble, it was. But it was a calculated gamble that was either going to put me in a great position to cash (which I did) or I was going to be short-stacked and would have to hope I hit another decent hand to double or triple up. The important factor is that I wasn`t risking my entire tournament life on the hand, I had a chance to recover.
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