the AJ-KJ conundrum

PoolDemon · the AJ-KJ conundrum

I call them transvestite hands, it looks good from a distance, but when up close and facing a raised or re-raised pot, it, to me, loses all appeal.

I'm just curious, but why is this hand such a popular one, where players with a decent stack (not super large, or low) at any point in a tournament just can't seem to fold it, suited or not...not saying anything about haveing 10BB's left etc...then it's ok, as you are desperate to double up & need to play it then...

In most cases, that raised pot you are in holding those cards only gives you 3 outs to win (not counting a suckout to a straight or a flush)

So back to the question, why is this usually 3 out hand so appealing, especially when you are pretty sure you are behind holding it ???

DangerMouse

I`ve been knocked out of a lot of tournies holding AJ. Shortstacked it`s more than reasonable to push with though.

When you`re not that short I`d agree it`s a hand you have to learn to throw away sometimes. That usually means when someone has raised before you or when someone has 3-bet ie re-raised your initial raise. Occasionally you`re going to be throwing away the best hand but that`s ok.

Why can`t people throw it away? I can`t really answer. Some of it is down to discipline or knowledge (ie lack of). It`s a pretty strong hand, it`s just vulnerable. I always put it on the same sort of rating as JJ, another bogey hand for me. No reason why either can`t be profitable long term. You just have to exercise a little caution when playing them. For fairly tight players it`s about the minimum hand to raise with UTG but there are plenty of players who just limp in with it from the first position or two.

KJ I don`t really consider in the same way. It`s definitely a weaker hand and there are only a few situations I`m going to be playing it in.

PoolDemon

i wasn't listing KJ with AJ as being equal in strenght, obviously not, & AJ can be a good raising hand in the right position, it just it happens these 2 weaker hands I noticed as being in larger pots, when dominated, & usually lose, & the player that played that, unless hitting a suckout is gone if not in that hand, not long after...

Miklosik

All it takes is just one suckout with KJ, or some such, and they will play it for ever. Every time, and chase until it is stastically impossible for them to win.

I think there are an increasing number of players like that. People with a whole lot of gamble in them.

PoolDemon

yep, & it's good to tag them when you discover them, as you can play it against them quite easily after...

I wonder if they just don't realize how far behind they are with those hands, typically 30% to win at best, if I need a coin toss, well I try & get 50-50 or darn close to it odds, that extra 20% is huge...

SoSoft

I think people see 2 face cards and that's all they see. I remember a guy saying his favorite starting hand was KT suited. Don't know why. -- I have lost frequently with AJ --- I can say though, when playing with donkeys who are playing ANYTHING, I will value those cards more than I probably should. I also look differently at TJ suited when I read that AA is beaten more often by TJ suited than any other 2 cards. hmmmmmmmm.

PoolDemon

depending on the tourny, players involved, certainly it makes sense to play it, but my point was more to seeing a strong player raising UTG as an example, then these hands should be an auto fold almost, depending on your chipsatck of course, as calling out a third of your stack with a typically 30% at best to win hand...well, any 2 cards can win, but I'll take a top 10 hand any day if I'm commiting a large part of my chipstack...

as for J10 being a good hand to crack aces with, sure they can, but typically, this happens much more often early in a tourny, where the blinds are so low that even raising to 100 or so gets a call by the J10 or similar hand...late in a tourny, this is more than a foldable hand to a raise, unless gambling or short stacked, or very large stacked...

DangerMouse

Quick piece of poker trivia.

56 suited (opposing suit to your opponents aces) is the best hand to crack aces with.

Miklosik

DangerMouse

PoolDemon

are we talking actual hands played against aces, or hands that were on that table, folded, & would have won ?

were the aces played with a proper preflop raise, or too small a raise to make that hand fold, (like in the BB with min raise...)

any 2 cards can win, but every card has an equal chance to come out, so cards that help 56 come out as often as cards that can help any other connected cards...alos, if running that against a simulator, 67 suited as you describe actually is marginally higher to win, 22.9% vs 22.7%...

DangerMouse

We`re talking all-in preflop.

And AsAc vs 6h 7h is 76.97 vs 23.03.

Only .03 difference but the 5h 6h is still ahead. (I said it was a small percentage)

PoolDemon

muratore

i read somewhere that 64s is 78.29% to win against any random hand (incl Aces)

PoolDemon